What do you think?

[Texas]

This slaughter house situation is driving me crazy. Obama has proposed that all slaughterhouses be paid for by our tax money. slaughterhouses to me is like abortions-I don't condone either one.

I feel, if a horse owner has a horse then by God you should have the responsibility of PAYING TO PUT THE POOR THING DOWN WITH A SHOT and by a vet.  There is so much irresponsibility and reckless behavior by some horse owners.

What say you?

Texas.

PS: This goes especially for the breeders!

[equisician]

I am against the slaughter of ALL animals for meat. I agree that we do not need to eat horses, but we don't need to eat other animals either!!! Unless you are raising animals on your own farm and killing them in a humane way or going hunting for your meat NOTHING THAT YOU ARE EATING is treated or killed with any more dignity than a slaughtered horse, and no animal that you are eating is safe for your consumption. Check out the movie Food Inc from the library or netflix or go to youtube and put in terms like poultry farm or beef or pig slaughter. Its the exact same thing. I love horses and do not want this happening to them but I really think we (as passionate animal lovers) need to either accept the practice of slaughter of ALL animals (dogs and cats too!) and simply try to get laws passed that make the killing process as quick and painless as possible, or stand against it entirely (100%.) Its the same thing as abortion. If you are going to be against it then be against all war and the death penalty too. If you can accept that in some cases its ok to go to war or put a criminal to death, then allow people to have the right to end a life growing within them. In God's eyes that life has just as much value as the life of a criminal or enemy from an opposing country. Morality is not like a salad bar where you can pick and choose which life has more value or which kind of killing is acceptable. 

Adriana/Equisician; vegetarian for 30 years

The lives were taken
For feasts at the table
A life of misery
Ending with a shock

Brutal murder
All hands to the slaughter
Mass torture
All hands to the knife

And I can hear the screams
With the knife, the jolt, the wring
They must follow in our dreams
Carrying a twisted sting

Children's stories with their farmyard favourites
At the table in a different disguise

Don't talk to me of health
Or something someone else will do
We're talking about the act
Of taking life for me and you
And I hear their screams

~Assault and Battery ~ Howard Jones

[deb be]

I am no bible scholar but they took fish and lamb for feasts in the bible for consumption. It was accepted when Jesus walked the earth.

As for comparing animals to people I want my say. Do they even give the babies pain killer before they end their life? Ever hear of partial birth abortion? Just because a law is made and was passed doesn't mean that it was a good thing. It entitled women to somehow think now they have more control over their bodies. Oh yeah? We wouldn't be approaching some 55 million aborted babies at this time (since 1973) if we still had standards to aspire to live by. Why is alright to kill an unborn baby but not a live person? Kill another person and its murder for which you can go to jail. The poor baby doesn't even have a name yet. All living creatures fight for their God given life to the sometimes bitter end. Very few things in life can be reduced to an all or nothing situation,least of all this one. All the wars combined probably wouldn't touch that figure and that includes the Nazi's in WW2. Thats not even including the communist countries yet where THEY decide how many babies you have... Thats Socialism. That figure is strictly the US.

I'm sorry to those who maybe offended by all this, and I know people who have had abortions and I don't sit in judgement, but I think thats when society started to go to hell is when that law was passed and it became legal to think we had a right to choose who lives and who dies. Woe to the male who has no choice in the matter or the grandparents and family who would love that child that ends up in a sink. To me Roe vs Wade is an unfortunate sign of that time. Regardless of where you the reader stand we still hopefully can still respect each others opinions even when we don't agree.

The influx of immigration and TV shows where they not only promote but eat every part of the horse is why this is now legal. 

[Texas]

Then, do you agree or have the knowledge that horses, dogs, cats, pigs and cows all have the intuition to fear when they are lined up to be slaughtered?  Cuz, my friends, studies have shown, they most certainly do.  A gun shot in the head is more humane.  How they do it now reminds me of a concentration camp.  Would you want your favorite pet to go through that fear when it is ill and not feeling well. Absolutely, unexceptable.

On this website I once read that at the Humane Society-they have untrained, 'UNTRAINED' young people putting animals down where the medicine did not work. 

We need a calmer, more compassionate world folks.

[equisician]

Texas you are soooo right! I beg you to go get that movie Food Inc. There is a part where they show normal acceptable slaughter practices and then they interview small scale organic farms where the animals live free-range and happily and the method of slaughter is how you describe (and done with utmost care and dignity). But it also shows that very few of us can afford to eat healthy. Something is VERY screwed up when its cheaper to go to Burger King than it is to buy veggies and organic meats from a local farm. 

[Classic2011]

I am just going to tip toe through here with this comment....animals that are slaughtered experience intense stress and fear just before being killed.  During that time, there is a sudden surge of stress hormones released into their bodies.  Adrenaline, cortisol, and other stress hormones remain their bodies and begin to alter the animal meat.  And when you eat that meat, (studies have shown) you ingest those hormones into your body.  Lamb is my favorite and I am not saying yum, yum right now unless "Mary's little lamb" was kindly "terminated".
Studies continue to show that the tainted meat can cause a host of medical conditions and diseases.  I immediately think of animals in the wild that kill, like wolves, and does the meat of their kill effect their health negatively?  I tend to think not and that their bodies are wired to handle that.   

I am extremely against slaughtering horses for human consumption.  The idea that it is being tolerated because of some people's preferences at the table...what a mess.

[equisician]

Since we are sort of on the subject I highly recommend Darbster in Lake Worth (on Dixie) - a non for profit vegan restaurant. All their proceeds go to animal charities and the food is DELICIOUS!!!

[smhill]

Since we are sort of on the subject I highly recommend Darbster in Lake Worth (on Dixie) - a non for profit vegan restaurant. All their proceeds go to animal charities and the food is DELICIOUS!!!

On your recommendation I'll be sure to try it - the vegan restaurants I've been to in Florida have been expensive and not very good.  The vegetarian/vegan restaurants in big cities (LA, London, etc.) ROCK!!!! 

There was a comment earlier that said "I am no bible scholar but they took fish and lamb for feasts in the bible for consumption. It was accepted when Jesus walked the earth. "  Good point - "fish and lamb for feasts" - the fish was wild and lived the natural life that the creator intended until it was caught, and the lamb also lived a natural life, grazing on natural foods, until it was slaughtered for the FEAST.  My husband IS a bible scholar, and the life of the fish and lamb of the bible has no resemblance to the mass production of the animal products available at Publix.

I am not a vegetarian, but I do try to eat responsibly/organic raised/caught animal products.  Most peoples' consumption of animal products (and processed foods) is too high, could take a lesson from the Bible and see meat/fish/poultry as more of a feast than filler.  I think the important thing is to consider what you're consuming as well as the health impact of what you put in your mouth. 

[Classic2011]

Continuing on in the same vein....excellent comment about the fish and lamb of the Biblical days.  They totally ate a great diet without everything being processed and didn't eat "the mass production of the animal products" like of today.  I, too, am not a vegetarian, and eat exactly the way smhill stated by eating healthy and meat not being a filler.  I heard a chicken add say the chicken becomes what it eats and had to agree and laugh at the same time.  We are what we eat. There were these hens running around where my horse is kept and I saw them eat baby rats and I wouldn't eat their eggs anymore....itch !  It just grossed me out....

 I make sure my horse gets the best quality feed and hay and even our cat gets grain free catfood.  And I know other responsible pet owners do the same thing.  So, even more so, we should do the same so we can enjoy our pets by being healthy and keep up with them!

There are diets or ways of eating that are taken out of the Bible and the more we "graze" around the outer perimeters of the grocery store, the healthier we will become.

[Texas]

Congratulations to all of us who hate slaughter. Equisian I have seen the movie "FOOD". I din't like it one way or another-the subject hurts my heart. So call your US Senator and give him/her hell if they vote for taxpayers to pay for the slaughterhouses-to me, its just asbad as abortion.

I am trying to be a vegan. Growing up in Texas it is difficult to change but I'm trying and like vegan food-I just don't know enough about spices for the food and such. Wish I did.

[equisician]

My weakness is leather. I don't eat animals but I absolutely can't stand leather alternatives; fake shoes, boots or especially saddles.  I have tried the high-end synthetics and they never let you feel the horse (and SQUEAK at the trot, ack!!!) I feel so bad about it. My only "solution" is try to buy used as much as possible (on ebay or at consignments) so that at the very least the leather is recycled. I really love the bible/feast point that was made. My mom and dad grew up in eastern Europe where people could only afford to eat meat on special occasions. Poultry was about once a week and fish was rather frequent as long as there wasn't snow. Winters were very hard and they got by on whatever was stored in the cellar. Physical labor was the norm from sunrise to sunset and there was no heart disease, diabetes or obesity. Not sure about cancer, nobody knew about it back then. There were no "unwanted pregnancies" because having a child was the end-all, most joyous scenario life could offer, especially because losses of all kinds were so frequent due to war and diseases. And yes of course people got pregnant too young, too old and unmarried. They just dealt with it the best they could. Rising to the occasion wasn't something newsworthy, it was just what people had to do throughout their entire lives. If everyone made just a small shift toward being less wasteful and decadent and did a little less demanding/complaining and a lot more counting of blessings, many positive changes would result.
Adriana/Equisician
 

[smhill]

I am trying to be a vegan. Growing up in Texas it is difficult to change but I'm trying and like vegan food-I just don't know enough about spices for the food and such. Wish I did.

Why vegan rather than vegetarian?

Just curious . . .

I think that the bottom line is, we listen to the facts, our hearts, our God, and do the best we can. 

Since Buddhists have a tradition of vegetarianism, I find that a lot of Japanese dishes are vegetarian.  My favorite Japanese cooking sites are justhungry and justbento, do a search on those sites for vegetarian dishes.  Also many Indians are vegetarian, so I like trying Indian dishes too.  I'll probably never be vegetarian, but for both health and moral reasons, I eat vegetarian as much as I can.

One of my greatest joys in life is helping my niece be an educated vegetarian.  I taught her to read labels, and she discovered that some things she was eating were not vegetarian.  And when she visits we try and cook new foods, try to get her away from mac & cheese and cheese pizza!

[jumperoo]

Why vegan rather than vegetarian?  Because there is no difference between eating a hamburger and buying a pair of leather shoes.  ANY animal product that you consume or wear supports the horrific industry that produces it.  That includes dairy farms too, because the animals are impregnated every 18 months, have their babies ripped from them and then they are left to die a slow death or they are thrown in veal crates.    Being a vegan can be difficult because you are definitely limited in what you can eat, but after seeing the video footage I have seen, it is quite an easy choice for me.

[Classic2011]

 A lot of cruelty in this world.....in the beginning of time, animals were made for our use.  Even when Adam screwed up with Eve over fruit, when "sin" entered this world, then God made their first clothes from animal skins.  In the Old Testament, animals were scarified and on and on it goes.  I have always said I was so glad to be born in the New Testament era where we don't have to have animal sacrifices for our atonement, but now we have Jesus have our ultimate atonement.  And, yet He was cruelly beaten beyond recognition and hung on a cross to die.  He endured pain like no man before or after with a cat of nine tails digging His flesh out.  And this was still part of the process for the salvation of man. 

There are a lot of cruel things that go on in this world from animals being tortured to people being tortured...and I need not go into the details of all of that.  We do our best with what we have and where we are in this world.  Some things we can change and somethings we cannot.  But, we can pray and that is the ultimate best thing and go from there.

[smhill]

Why vegan rather than vegetarian?  Because there is no difference between eating a hamburger and buying a pair of leather shoes.  ANY animal product that you consume or wear supports the horrific industry that produces it.  That includes dairy farms too, because the animals are impregnated every 18 months, have their babies ripped from them and then they are left to die a slow death or they are thrown in veal crates.    Being a vegan can be difficult because you are definitely limited in what you can eat, but after seeing the video footage I have seen, it is quite an easy choice for me.

I know the reason that most people are vegan rather than vegetarian, but knowing Texas for years on this board was curious as to her specific reasons. 

No particular reason that I wanted to know, other than my own interest in vegetarianism and healthy living/spiritual living.  And I'm just a curious person, sometimes I feel like there's a gap in my thought or knowledge about something or a particular person, and little facts help to round it out.  No offense intended!

[equisician]

Hi Samantha! BTW I will email you pics of the new baby as soon as he has arrived - we are scrambling to get everything together OMG sooo much to do!!!! Every time I check something off our list we add something else.
Here's my answer to your questions (which I thought was a good one!)
The reason I am a vegetarian and not vegan (I eat eggs from our backyard hens and drink a little milk, love cheese) is that when I tried vegan-ism my nails got brittle and my hair was dull and sparse. My skin flaked off and I just generally looked like the living dead. I have issues with deficiencies to begin with (a type of anemia based in my bone marrow) so I imagine that combined with not being good at vegan cooking is what screwed me up. My sons eat the same as I do...We try to do organic dairy as often as possible...My daughter is the kind of vegetarian that eats fish and occasional poultry. Her reasons are that she lacks strength and energy as a strict vegan or vegetarian. She puts in 15 hours a week doing ballet, pointe, acro, jazz, tap, etc...and you could knock on her legs as if they were made of wood LOL so I guess her protein intake has to be higher and from an animal source. Chris was a carnivore when we met - seriously!!! It was red meat three times a day. He still eats meat, especially while touring on the road (they just eat pretty much whatever is available) but back at home he is very health conscious and sticks with tons of salads and very little meat, mostly fish or poultry. My sister was vegan then learned she had gluten intolerance and sensitivities to dairy so she has sort of been forced into eating some meat in order to be healthy. We all just do what we can do the best we can do it but I think more and more people, even meat eaters, are trying to go with less not only because of animal cruelty awareness but health reasons as well.
xoxo
A

[smhill]

Thanks, Adrianna!

I think that maybe some of us on this board who are interested in vegetarianism might want to have some kind of cooking/sampling dinner or pot luck.  I'll probably never be a true vegetarian, but I do have interest in incorporating more vegetarian dishes into my diet, so meat/animal days get reduced to a few times a week rather than every meal, every day.  I'd be very interested to see what others eat as their favorite meals, and would enjoy helping others do the same. 

It is so difficult for us here in south Florida.  In big cities, you can find vegan and vegetarian dishes in every restaurant.  I'm now starting to see things labeled "vegan" or "vegetarian" locally, but usually only in health conscience restaurants (or Indian).

 

[smhill]

And can't wait to see your new baby!!!!!

[equisician]

Samantha I am SOOO into that sampling vegetarian pot luck idea! Everyone could photocopy their recipes and put them near the dish. Hope we can do it near a cold swimming pool - The only things to do in this heat are swim and enjoy great food - let me know if I can help organize it  The baby is here and he's a little nervous and unsettled so I'm going to head over there multiple times tonight to make sure he's ok. Time for a vegetarian cup of coffee, LOL!
BTW my favorite Indian restaurants are: Indus close to downtown wpb, and the two on Okeechobee both are on the south side (one is close to Haverhill and the other is by Jog) sorry that I do not know the names but the word Indian is displayed on the signs. All three do fantastic lunch buffets!
xoxo

[polomare]

I have a question… (not trying to start something, just honestly want to know) … most vegetarians, pretty much by definition, are animal lovers, right?  You all have pets?  Dogs? Cats?

So . . . Do you make your meat-eating pets conform to your vegetarian diets?  Or do you allow them to eat meat?  If the former, how do you justify imposing an artificial diet upon your animals to conform to your man-made spiritual philosophy? If the latter, how do you justify the commercial slaughtering of animals to feed your pets?

[LittleGrey]

Cats are carnivores and should never, ever be fed a vegetarian diet.
Dogs are opportunistic scavengers, but should never be fed a vegetarian diet.

It would be nice to feed from small, organic farms, but the least we can do is feed high quality pet foods.

I am not a vegetarian, but I have vegetarian and vegan friends. None feed their pets based on their beliefs.

[Classic2011]

 My mother feeds her dog a grain free dog food and our cat gets a grain-free diet..even his treats are grain free. 

[jumperoo]

That is an interesting question Polomare raises.  I am a vegan and I have 4 dogs and a cat.  As Littlegrey stated - cats cannot live on a vegetarian diet (at least not that I am aware of).  Dogs however can do just fine on a non-meat diet.  I have many vegan friends who feed non-meat diets to their dogs, and, there are many dog food brands on the market that are vegetarian, so it is not really problematic if you wish to feed your dogs a vegetarian diet.  I, however, do not feed my animals vegetarian diets (except for my horse, of course) because my husband is not vegan and he is against it.  In a perfect world, no animal would be killed for human consumption.  But, I do the best that I can without being completely finatical and operate under the guidelines that I, myself, can live with.

[Classic2011]

I know of dogs who like carrots and broccoli, but not heard of a dog thriving on a no meat diet. 

 

[LittleGrey]

Perhaps you mean a Pescetarian diet...with fish? Or semi-vegetarian with the use of eggs? Dogs can definitely do well on an ocean based diet. Such a diet likely excels at delivering a proper omega-3 ratio and is ideal. Dogs could also do well on an egg-based diet, but it's not ideal. The most ideal is to vary fresh protein sources so our pet's can have a full spectrum of nutrients and amino acid profiles...kinda like we get from our varied diet.

To say that dogs can eat vegetarian and not be deprived of essential amino acids and nutrients is a gross understatement. No veterinary-health organization would ever endorse such a poor diet...ie: AAFCO and AVMA to name a few.

A few Vegetarian diets are commercially available and most of them are meant to be used in conjunction with animal protein sources during protein-based elimination diets or during homemade diets.

My dogs eat a combination of items that I vary....raw, homecooked, honest kitchen, stella and chewy, and they eat lots of ground and steamed veggies, but it's like no more than 15-20% of the diet, probably less. I feed grain free for my active dogs, but my older and terminal dog gets oatmeal and pasta (and other no-no's like pancakes and latkas) because she has proteinuria and needs this to bulk up her diet with carbs.

[Classic2011]

I agree.

[Texas]

o to vegan dogs and cats. I am not vegan or vegetarian although I'm trying. As with any culture and being from Texas, I love a good steak once in awhile. MMMM! My whole point is the processing of our animals and most over the actual killing-how inhumane it is. You can't tell me that all the barn fires, loaded with horses that don't make the cut to stardom, is an accident.  If there is money to be made-you can make it by burning your horses (breeders) to death and collecting the insurance policies.

I don't like paying for abortions and I don't like paying for any animal to go to inhumane slaughter.  I continue to say-if you breed a horse-and it gets too old or doesn't work out-you must pay a vet to come out and put it to sleep!

BE A RESPONSIBLE HORSE OWNER!!!!  I will not pay your bill to abusively slaughter your horse. Period!

Thx to all with your wonderful posts and info-Notice we didn't really hear from breeders? haha