Cracking the whip at a child’s lunge lesson and spooking horse?

[equisician]

A friend of mine came to me yesterday rather upset because her 8 year old daughter’s back is in spasms from a recent fall during a riding lesson. She wanted a horse-person’s opinion about whether what happened was totally “normal” or somewhat negligent. I have VERY strong opinions about it (will save them for later). Here is her description of what happened:

•   Popular camp/lesson/boarding barn
•   8 yr old child can walk, trot, just at the very beginning of starting to canter (yet already jumps?)
•   was taking lunge lesson on large horse (16 + h)
•   did not have reins or grab strap and arms were out to the side in balance position while riding
•   instructor asked student to make horse trot
•   horse trotted but too slowly
•   instructor then cracked whip by horse’s rear end
•   horse cantered then bucked twice and little girl went flying off
•   instructor said “he doesn’t spook, that buck was a mad buck not a spooky one”
•   instructor said “well I guess your lesson today was on how to fall ha ha ha, falling is good for you, you need to get used to it  because it happens a lot to riders.”

I have given the mom names of three wonderful riding instructors (with awesome lessons horses) in hopes that she switches to a new barn. Please let me know if you think this is as scary of a situation as I think it is!!!

[Classic2010]

If this is exactly what happened...8 year old on a very big horse with no reins and little riding experience...this speaks for itself!    And now this little girl has back spasms? Wow...I wonder where this is going to go? How many people have back problems due to these kind of accidents???  Instructor should not be teaching youn students with that kind of a mindset. Someone should put her in the same situation and let the whip crack!!   But, I hope that mom gets her child out of there.

[equisician]

What's freaking me out is that mom is "not all that upset" now that a day has passed, and was kind of calm and matter of fact about it today....then when my attitude was RUN from this place she said things back to me like "but there was a lot going on that day because it was a weekend" and "everyone tells me that falls happen and I'm sure this lady knows what she is doing." This is their second riding school and the parents seem annoyed that they would have to find number 3. I don't think people realize how dangerous of a sport this is and how careful we need to be with children. Thank you for writing. It helps me feel like I'm not crazy for being so upset! Dad seems more concerned than mom, maybe I should talk to him about it?

[Classic2010]

Someone needs to approach this instructor or the one who heads up this place and report this so it doesn't happen again.

[BridleWay_2]

I agree that this "instructor" needs to be reported! That is so crazy to put someone at risk for a serious injury! A beginner rider, child, should be riding a pony or small horse. Where, or whom do you report these kind of dangerous situations too?

[equisician]

I don't know...when it comes to safety there is usually some form of regulation but wherever there is regulation there is politics and greed and government yuck. Sigh...Sorry that was of no help, just thinking out loud. I guess the thing that upsets me most is that the mom decided to keep taking her there despite my advice, recommendations of wonderful other trainers (that I trust and love so much!) and just feels like 'oh well, stuff happens no biggie, its a dangerous sport.' I am very bummed out for this little girl.

[8Belles]

People don't use their brains sometimes, ugh. If I were that little girl I would not want to do another lesson with that trainer.


And obviously trainer, "that was a mad buck"... Uhmm, last time I checked if I were a horse and a whip was chasing me, I'd be mad too!

[RoryFitz]

This is an interesting subject and I'm remembering all the times that I fell off as a kid, I was always told "the more times you fall the better rider you become. " Falling was "just part of the sport" Horses spook, they buck, they bolt, spin, etc. We just fell and got back on.
If the parents dont want their child to risking falling (and there will be more falls as riding and falls do go hand in hand) then maybe it may be wise to find a safer sport?

I try to ask the question "WWGMD?" (What would George Morris Do) he has trained more international riders than anyone. Any thoughts on this?

[equisician]

Children (or adult beginners) should NEVER be on horses that knowingly are spinners, buckers, rear-ers, spookers etc...

I absolutely do NOT believe that the more you fall the better you get; there is no evidence of this. One of the greatest trainers-riders I've ever known and worked with (Carol Goodstein of Springdown Equestrian Center in Portola Valley) PRIDES herself on only having fallen off a handful of times in her long life as a H/J pro-rider and is still riding today in her late 70's! She always talks about how smart it is to go about everything in equestrian sports, slowly, carefully and with great caution and that "the dare devils" don't make it far. I totally agree with this!!! Safe/Smart/Slow/Respectful/Cautious gets one ahead in life, not just where horses are concerned.

It is certainly a dangerous sport that involves falling and its very good to know how to fall because it will happen (relax the body, allow it to go loose, try and steer clear of your horse and other horses, get back on as soon as you can) but falling does not improve your riding ability. Furthermore preventable falls that have to do with incompetence simply create fearful riders who stop trusting their horses, teachers and eventually themselves.

If this riding instructor wanted the horse to go faster at the trot she should have shown the RIDER how to accomplish this with her seat, legs, attitude, posture and voice. What kind of a favor are you doing by using the whip when its the rider that needs to understand and absorb what the aids are all about? Its better to use up 10 hours of lessons showing a beginner how to walk, walk forward and extend, collect the walk and stop, then walk again over and over than it is to move up to the trot or canter too soon.

[deb be]

If falling off made you a better rider then I'd be in the Olympics. 

Yes its going to happen that on occasion there will be fall possibilities,  but I would hope not in a lesson on a lesson horse!   Certainly not a beginner!!  You pay to be trained on a trained horse.  I would hope that the horse would feel motivated to respond alittle better to the rider just by the trainers presence and body language during the lesson w/o need of a whip snap.

Was the mom there to witness it,  did she see it happen?  She may have just been using you to blow off alittle steam.  Hopefully the child was wearing a helmet!

Did she merely encourage with the whip or actually snap it? 

There are alot of trainers out there,  I wouldn't be cavallier about falls even if child bones are softer versus those of us older riders.  Every effort needs to be made to keep young riders safe regardless of whats going on in the neighborhood at any given time.  A good school horse should be bomb proof.  Thanks for bringing up an interesting subject.       

[SaddlebredShowMom]

A good school horse should be bomb proof.

Yeah, but in reality NO horse is ever completely "bomb proof" - lesson horse or seasoned world class champion.  That really is the point here.  You can never take anything you do with a horse for granted.

Honestly, what the trainer was doing in that lunge lesson is very common and those types of lessons go on daily at any number of barns.  The trainers comments that were quoted in the initial post seem to be the trainer trying to reassure the rider and the Mom so they weren't freaking out.  I remember my daughter's first fall as a young rider - the same age as this child.  I was scared, she was scared, the horse was running around riderless scared, and the trainer was calm and composed trying to regain control over the situation.  You need a clear thinking person at a time like that.

The first thing the trainer said to my daughter was "Now you're a Member of The Club.  You can't be a Member until you've had your first fall."  She checked to make sure she wasn't injured and then set about catching the horse -- and then she had my daughter re-mount and continue with their lesson -- teaching her not that you should disregard safety, but rather, that if you want to be a rider you have to take things like this in stride (pun intended ) because with horses, all horses - any horses, stuff happens.  It's just the way it is.

[equisician]

If falling off made you a better rider then I'd be in the Olympics. 

Nearly choked on my lunch from laughing, you are HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!
xoxo

[deb be]

Equisian,  I try to keep a sense of humor about it all.  The same horse that makes your buttons pop with pride can also keep you humble,  and in my case very humble.   

Isn't it  amazing how quickly you think of things when your in mid air,  such as  'don't step on me,  and oh not again!'......

     

[Classic2010]

When dealing with very young riders, it is very important to minimize the always potential accidents.....not create them or add to them.  I think the trainer overstepped the safety boundaries and then goes on to react like that wasn't her fault.  We don't welcome falls...we avoid them like the plaque.  As we know, falls can really hurt you---paralyze you or kill you.  Of course falls happen, but the aim is to stay on the horse!  I have taught a number of very young children to ride, including my daughter.  Very important to put the child with the right horse for their stage of riding.  Nothing is black and white with horses, but use tons of commen horse sense when dealing with kids.
Ultimately, the mother is the one who should be in charge of what her daughter is being exposed to.  I, for one, would take my child out of there with all this evidense.

And, I have a lovely friend who kept falling off her horse.  She ended up fearing riding and gave away her 2 horses. She had the wrong horses and her trainer was ignoramus of this.

[equisician]

Deb - You are sooo right! A sense of humor is one of the most important things you can have in life   In mid air I am always thinking "if I die my mother is going to be mad at me for continuing this crazy riding thing that she is always telling me I am too old to do."

[PrincetonEquineTransport]

Do the AMERICAN THING.....N dont walk and file a lawsuit for negligance.....then retire!!!  

[deb be]

Eq,  Your right,  how no matter how old you are,  in the back of your mind you think ' what would my mother say......  boy would she give it to me.......what was I thinking?  Like thats not enough,  then theres dad to contend with.........oh my......

Theres so many trainers and nice farms that I would want to take a child to more than one place anyways and not limit myself to only one.  You try out more than one car before you buy so why not be open to try different trainers too?  I wouldn't necessarily go for the fanciest place but rather the best and safest trainer with like horses. 

[tevvy]

Who are the three wonderful instructors that Rquiscan recommends?

[Admin 1]

Sorry but there are not specific recommendations on this board.  If you want that you will need to PM ... It gets to be ugly every time I think it might be ok to allow it.

[equisician]

Tevvy I knew about the rule on this list so I didn't want to post these wonderful people on the list however I would be more than glad to email or PM you - one is in Jupiter and is heavy into natural horsemanship, one is seasonal and in Lox has a great lesson pony, one in Wellington full time very into the WEF shows, one is a partner to a big show barn person in LW and does lessons on the side, great horses. Let me know your email so I can send you the list; all have what I consider to be great prices!
xoxo,
Adriana

[equisician]

Hi Tevvy,
I just PM'd you a great list of people with full descriptions of what they offer, locations, email, numbers, their prices, methods of communication, etc...If anyone else would like the list just let me know! (has both adult and child riding instructors on it)
Have a great Sunday!
Adriana

[tevvy]

Equiscan, I didn't get it. Did you send it to me email? Will you please resend it? Thanks.

[equisician]

Hi Tevvy!
I didn't send it because I don't have your email address, however I did sent you a PM and also just sent an email to someone who's address starts with Holly? If that is you then you will have in in your in box in a sec :-)

Have a great day,
Adriana

[Texas]

Let us not forget that Florida, at least, is full of people who call themselves "trainers/instructors" just because they can ride. I suppose that it OK but another component to instructing is to have the intellect to go along with instructing someone.

I would get the little girl to a competent chiropractor for spasms.  No physician can make spasms go away but a chiropractor certainly can. There is a chiropractor who works on all the professional athletes in WPB - Michael Berl. Because this child is at an age where her bones are still forming, it is important to get these spasms worked out - also gentle massage for the wee one would make her feel better as well.

[Hjshon001]

I have been a trainer for 15 plus years. After reading this I have to agree with the popular opinion that the trainer mentioned probably does not belong in the position she is in.
 Horses spook. Lazy horses sometimes need encouragement. Having the experience that I do, I realize that accidents happen and yes riders sometimes take a spill. In my opinion this trainers primary short coming is negligence. 1.) I would never ever put a stone cold beginner on a horse I wasn't 99% sure wouldnt buck. (Beginners should be on VERY passive horses. Not horses that have the potential to buck AND canter away) Its hard to believe a knowledgeable eye wouldnt have at least suspected that. In which case you use a different horse (Is there a shortage or quality lesson horses?? That is a red flag.) Even if she had no other horses to use (unacceptable) ...Why not raise a hand and encourage forward movement by stepping towards the horse?Crack a lunge whip??? Not smart. This trainer is irresponsible on several different levels.
2.) I could never imagine laughing ..or saying "ha ha" after a student fell off. These are children!! Its not funny to see a kid scared. They need support. Im not saying hugs and kisses (because this sometimes makes matters worse) but some support is certainly in order.
 All in all it is no surprise when new students start at my barn and have over paranoid parents with a story just like this one. Its a rehabilitation process for everyone involved. Riding is not HIGHLY risky if done properly. My advice would be to tell your friend the energy  she invests in finding a new trainer is well worth her childs life!! Equestrian accidents have the potential to be MUCH worse. Good luck.

[Classic2010]

Hjshon001.....perfect!  I agree to every word you wrote!  And if I were that mother, you would be the one I would want to teach my child how to ride.  I hope you get a ton of "pms" for info on how to get lessons from you! Thank God for your common horse sense!!